We know how stunning Rage is when we look at the previews and stuff, but one thing that could hinder that enjoyable ride for every owner of the PlayStation 3 might just lie in the console itself.
Co-founder of id Software since 1991, John Carmack speaks up some interesting details during an interview related to their upcoming shooter title, Rage. A lot of developers had complain about memory issues on the PS3 in the past few years, but Carmack explained in detail as to why that it is not a problem that can be left out, especially to the console maker itself, Sony.
“We had to make the game dominated by the console hardware trade offs. And the PlayStation 3 is, in some ways, the long pole there. They are close, the PS3 and the Xbox 360.”
“You don’t have to do radically different things, but the memory is a little tighter on the PS3 because it is segmented and Sony takes a little bit more off the top for their guide overhead than Microsoft does,” he said. “There is no doubt that decisions had to be based around what would work well on the consoles.”
He also mentioned that, even though the PC is much more powerful than the consoles, he felt a bit handicapped because he couldn’t optimize it as well as the consoles, due to the API overhead. However, it could be bypassed due to the hardware superiority of the PC and can be brute forced to make the game run much better than the consoles.
“If I want to do all these things in 15 milliseconds, the PC is at a bit of a handicap – and it has to make up for it with raw brute force.” He expresses disappointment at all three platforms, whether it is the memory on the PS3, Disc space issues on the X360 and the API overhead on the PC.
He has already pointed out of the Xbox 360 and PC problems before, but the PS3 memory segmentation issue is the latest that he speaks for. It looks like it won’t be that easy to make him happy, as a developer, hopefully the likes of PS4, Xbox 720 and Wii U will manage to accomplish that.
Superdynamite
Aug 15. 2011
John Carmack – “If I want to do all these things in 15 milliseconds, the PC is at a bit of a handicap – and it has to make up for it with raw brute force.” He expresses disappointment at all three platforms, whether it is the memory on the PS3, Disc space issues on the X360 and the API overhead on the PC.
The biggest issues are on PC & 360, yet this author (Jason Wright) tries to mislead us with the title of this article. “Rage development is limited due to PS3 memory”????
Did you ever hear of “game install”???
There; PS3 problem SOLVED. Oh wait… Problem still exists with 360 & PC.
Garbage!
Amir Ariff
Aug 15. 2011
It’s not Jason Wright, it’s me that published this. And yeah, i just quote from what he is saying.
latrodectus
Oct 16. 2011
Superdynamite, you’re retarded. John knows what he’s talking about, he’s been making games I have been playing, probably since before you were even thought of…he’s not just a master programmer and game engine developer, he’s a freakin aerospace rocket scientist, who tunes lambourgini’s. Installing the game does nothing to address SYSTEM Memory, and not everything can be solved with virtual memory. The problem he refers to, is the fact that A.) The system’s memory is not unified, like the 360′s bank of 512mb, instead, it is divided…256 for system memory and 256 for video…when you are dealing with so little ram to begin with, that’s tough. It’s not like the PC where, you have people running between 4gb-32gb of system memory and between 512mb, to 3gb of video memory. B.) The overhead memory he speaks of, is the PS3′s developer consoles are 512mb, the 360 developer consoles are 1gb, this means, on PS3, when developing, you can’t just use all 512mnb available, you need an Overhead for debugging…not to mention, the PS3′s OS uses more of the consoes memory already, where the 360′s uses very little of the 512mb. C.) Lastly, the 360 actually has more than 512mb, there is a 10mb embedded ram on the graphics processor, which is blazing fast…some insane 10,000mb/sec transfer rate or some crap, which allows for cleaner, less jaggy, higher res picture but developers can use that ram for whatever they want, e.g. a buffer etc. all of this, is why, 99% of the time, 360 games look better but I still own Rage on PS3, because it’s only one disc.
Jonathan
Aug 15. 2011
@superdynamite
Game installing isn’t going to address anything mentioned about memory limitations in the article. He is talking about onboard ram limitations. Or am I not understanding your post?
Superdynamite
Aug 15. 2011
@Johathan,
First off, id already blamed XBox360 for Rage development limitations. This is part of their “damage control”. (*all links below).
I like both 360 & PS3. Although I like both, I am a realist and I do know that the PS3 is far more technologically advanced than the 360, as it should be, being released 2 years after.
The limitations of the 360 and today’s “average” gaming PC are far greater than the Playstation3. But, the PC has almost endless expansion capabilities, so I don’t even know why it is part of the comparison.
Grand Theft Auto IV is the greatest example of this. The GTAIV was scaled down in almost every facet of the game so it could be developed for XBox360 without having to use multiple DVD discs. The frame rate, size & native resolution of GTAIV were all minimized so the game could fit on one DVD disc for 360. I highly doubt that Rage is close to the size of GTAIV.
Rage has been “in developement” since Motorstorm 1 was released (5 years). Infact, the developers got the idea for Rage from Motorstorm 1 on the PS3. I would be surprised if Rage was graphically superior to either Motorstorm or God of War III, both of which could not run on the 360 without being scaled down or released on mulitple discs.
The Xbox360 version of Final Fantasy XIII is on 3 discs and is still unable to run at a native resolution of 1080p. There is currently one XBox360 game with a native relolution of 1080i NOT 1080p (Boogie Bunnies = 1920×1080 (4xAA) on XBLive.
The author should be more responsible as a journalist when chosing a title for his article. The limitations of the 360 far outweigh the limitations of the split memory of the PS3 which is not even a limitation. PS3 runs at 3.4Ghz which is 4X faster than 360.
http://www.1up.com/news/rage-held-xbox-360-limits
In my opinion, the developer was trying to be politically correct
http://n4g.com/news/60602/id-admits-motorstorm-inspirations-for-rage
http://kotaku.com/257184/rockstar-gtaiv-limited-by-360
http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/god-of-war-iii/preview/why-god-of-war-iii-is-only-possible-on-ps3/a-201003051611977042/g-20060713144458560042
RZA
Aug 15. 2011
Take some English classes. This article was hard to read and understand.
HolyBatNipples
Aug 16. 2011
this was actually one of the better ones in terms of spelling and grammar
Superdynamite
Aug 16. 2011
@RZA
Explain. I don’t understand your comment. What didn’t you understand?
Alex
Sep 30. 2011
Super, I think RZA was replying to original article, not your comment. I found your comment very clear and well-written, thanks btw.
Dude 1
Aug 17. 2011
wth is wrong w/ people. The PS3 may have slightly more powerful parts, but it handicaps itself. First, Sony’s operating system takes more memory than 360, so the 360 is more efficient, and it has less memory. It dedicates half its memory to CPU, and the other half to GPU. This is AWFUL. Some games don’t split hardware limitations like that.
An RTS is far more CPU than GPU due to AI nad other CPU bound tasks.
Games have different needs and the 360 allows games to be more easily accessible for developers. The PS3 and Sony in general has always been a Pain in the A$$ for developers. PS2 used similar construction w/ a retarded dual core system. VU0 and VU1? Some developers believed the Game Cube was actually the more superior machine w/ its single core IBM processor. and 8x
Dude 1
Aug 17. 2011
8x quicker to develop for.
Anyway, this guy is simply saying the PS3 annoys the crap out of him because its memory is cut in half and this reduces the functionality. 360 is using 3 discs.
Robx12
Aug 19. 2011
Dude1 you right that 360 has easier access to the memory than ps3 BUT you need to know a few things like split memory has better potencial for better graphics than share now XDR not only is 5x faster but very efficient. I respect Carmack for his work in gaming but is funny that he mostly complain about PC and ps3 the best hardware overall, I ask my self if Carmack took the right approach on all three platforms especially when getting the ps3 20 to 30 fps thats horrible coming from a legend like Carmack ex K2 is way more technical than rage and lock 30 fps without dropping a frame.
Gir
Aug 20. 2011
You guys Really Need to know the Difference Between RAM and ROM.
PS3 Has 256Mb of On board RAM whilst Xbox360 has 512Mb, it is this Limitation of the Ps3 that is slowing Rage Development, Nothing to do with Harddrive Space or Number of Discs.
replace your PC RAM with only 256mb, and you will understand what carmack is talking about.
superdynamite
Aug 24. 2011
@Gir,
Don’t be misled by this article. Read the above links that I have posted for the facts. John Carmack is “expanding” his statements because of $$$$ GAME SALES $$$$.
Here, start with this one:
http://www.1up.com/news/rage-held-xbox-360-limits
dude
Oct 01. 2011
If you’ve played Rage you’ll see that the texture pop-in issues are really far worse on the PS3 than on the Xbox360 or the PC. I’ve had the fortune to test it on multiple platforms and it seems the PS3 version is the runt of the litter, which is a shame.
Superdynamite
Oct 02. 2011
@dude
#1. Rage hasn’t been released yet in any region.
#2. GTAIV is a pop-fest on the 360, to the point where it is almost unplayable. The city buildings, cars & people pop up as you drive down the street. Rockstar developers had to rip the game apart to make it playable on the 360.
It’s tough when your trying to eplain the reality of something to someone that is argueing and disputing facts. I’m telling you that 1+1=2 and you’re saying “No”.
So here, lets try one last time:
The XBox360 was NEVER a cutting edge console. The only thing that made the 360 great at launch was it’s online capabilities. In actuallity, the 360 not that much more powerful than the PS2.
The 360 was never designed to output or convert a FULL HD (1080p) signal from any type of media (disc or downloadable). There are ZERO, NONE, 0, games on the 360 that run at a native 1080p. There is one single game for the 360 that runs at native 1080i. The 360 has a red laser. The 360 does not have a blue or fucshia laser which is a major limitation for today’s gaming console.
Rage devs, GTAIV devs, Final Fantasy devs, the list goes on and on, all are limited in game design with the 360. It’s “easier” to develope for the 360 because that is what they have been doing for the past 8 years.
Now the developer has evolved, ie- Naughty Dog and Team Ico. Gabe “piggy” Newell (Valve) has even come around. These are the new breed of brilliant mines that have found that there are no boundaries or limitations with the PS3. This is the thought process that will survive in a shrinking gaming industry.
The Last Guardian Cannot be rendered on the 360. The way the game is being developed, it is physically impossible. You would need 8 DVD’s and a water cooled processer.
John Lamnor
Oct 20. 2011
Misleading title, the XBOX is limited, not the PS3. Learn to write an article. http://www.1up.com/news/rage-held-xbox-360-limits
These people got their facts straight.